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[LN]Desert Raider from my perspective


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12 replies to this topic

#1
Tromac

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Going to keep this debrief short and sweet.

Performance of the OCB guys was top notch as was that of our guests, thank you all. From Bravo squad I was really really impressed with the level of team work and the way we seamlessly worked together. You guys were fantastic, your drills were excellent and you were all really switched on.

In relation to the heli crash that can not be placed on the pilot. Without access to external view a pilot MUST have a full crew as they provide the eyes for the pilot who has limited field of view. Sure the comms broke down a little but that wasn't the major contributor.

I personally loved the mission and really enjoyed it, many thanks Lyndiman for a top notch job. Just needs Headless Client.
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#2
CptDavo

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Yup agree completely 100% Good turn out.

Key things I noted:
  • Communication
  • Training and the lack of aviation applying SOP. (This is probably root of the disaster)
  • It was great to have so many airframes up at once.
  • JTAC role could have been run better (As mentioned previously SOP & training is what it boils down to) - Faster TOT (Time on target) & use of assets.
  • Lag was also a key problem which should be looked at. Whilst flying CAS on the AH-6 I came across lots of desync which made it look like I was going to crash.


#3
Lyndiman

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Will make a quick follow up for task two with all units on the ground ready to go and the air support guys not needing to do transport.

Deconflicting the airspace is an important job. When orbiting a LZ and providing cover do a 'wheel' around - this way you can see the lz at all times. Also, when lifting off announce it like good VFR procedure. Just say '*callsign* lifting' If youre not flying in formation then you should expect a minimum of 1000 ft separation. If two callsigns are orbiting they wheel in opposite directions at different altitudes to provide overwatch from different angles.

I think we should have run 2 choppers with a loader for each.

Still good fun tho!

It seems some people's positions were stolen when they disconnected which I didn't know about till the end. Will kick people if this happens again.

#4
Knight

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I joined late not sure if I took someone's spot. No one mentioned it when I joined in

#5
Piro

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No you didn't Knight. When we kicked off, we had 1 or 2 empty slots in Foxtrot.

#6
Magnet

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Nah, your spot was empty. Key thing to avoid that is communication... we were all on team speak, if a spot was taken, raise it. Sometimes you don't know there's a problem unless someone raises it.

Lyndi, for the next mission Foxtrot-2 was coming into position at 2229 to the North of the AO.

Also, I like the idea of using the X-Ray platforms as overwatch / fire support. Gives the chopper pilots a challenge (and two more sets of eyes) and develops crew co-operation which is something we need to work on. I am a very big fan of having 4 man X-rays, Pilot, Co-Pilot (FFIR Operator), Crew Chief, Door Gunner. It's just a matter of using a chopper that has the FFIR or gimbal camera that can be used to suppliment recon observations, BDA's etc.

For the recon squad/s a 117 or similar would have also been handy since we were in position at the start / constantly moving forward to the next AO prior to the main contingent. Even if it's mounted in the vehicle it would help to keep us in contact regardless of where we are.

Finally from me, Foxtrot-2 did a fantastic job and maintained good discipline despite never firing a shot. Hopefully Lyndi will change that for us next run.

Mag.

P.S. More enemies next time.
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#7
DC338

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Flying without a crew chief is more challenging but far from a deal breaker and can be accomplished with practice. 3rd person is unnecessary IMHO. With that in mind LZ selection and planning is much more important when flying solo. Enclosed LZ/Compounds/Pinnacles are best avoided in air frames other than a little bird without an extra crew member. (UH-1 would probably be the size limit)

Complicating things without crew chief is clearing above from conflicts and keeping sight of other aircraft in what are awful visual conditions. Having said that communication can alleviate this. Simple calls such Lyndi suggest along with a couple of others would help.

I cannot emphasize the below statement enough.

Losing sight of your lead is a sin. Not telling him you have gone "blind" is a cardinal sin and a recipe for disaster.

Where are the SOPs for Air?


#8
Tromac

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There aren't any (well I did some a long time ago but they were never really used) as we've never had enough pilots to do multi-platform missions previously. They need to be developed but not made overly complicated, KISS principle is required.
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#9
EightySix

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I am taking an action on getting SPTCOY re-trained and upskilled. Keep an eye on the calendar.
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#10
Jazzakid

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after looking at lyndi's vid. maybe squad leader calls to pilot that the squad is out and is clear to take off, when it is safe to do so.

#11
Tromac

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after looking at lyndi's vid. maybe squad leader calls to pilot that the squad is out and is clear to take off, when it is safe to do so.


The problem with that is the squad leader needs to focus on what he's running out into as well as his own troops. We need to operate with full aircrews when possible and when not possible with external views. This also occurred because the pilot was being talked onto the LZ rather than given the opportunity to choose a spot and communicate that to the other aircraft, comms were tied up completely with the talk on which meant the pilot couldn't let the others know what was happening.

#12
Lyndiman

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I had no comms with pilots. different channel.

#13
ren111

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Key things I noted:
JTAC role could have been run better (As mentioned previously SOP & training is what it boils down to) - Faster TOT (Time on target) & use of assets.

in regards to this, being the JTAC on that night, having a JTAC operate in depth from the rear of the combat is totally inefficient, relying on sections to give accurate co-ords for a JTAC, then waiting to get those co-ords, relayed via 1 - 3 people then coordinating an attack solution, giving that to the pilots awaiting a read back and then finally receiving rounds onto target is a HUGE time delay, if you want to think about a fix for this, the answer is far simpler than overlaying training program from start to finish. PUT the JTAC as an imbed up front so they can see the calls.... OR ..... Imbed the JTAC with your Recon/Over watch Element. so that in turn, they can see the enemy and call the CAS elements into target, thus ending in a much faster TOT, sure you guys may have seen a slower turn around time from the ground, but when you are relying on a radio only and no eye ball of enemy movement, you simply wont get the TOT from call to bombs dropping as you had hoped for. From here out with the SOP's, if you want a JTAC in a TAC then give them the best possible position to make his calls to the flight lead.

Edited by ren111, 17 May 2013 - 06:49 PM.